New for 2008... GOLIATH! (fka B:TR Rumor for 08)

[Jake]

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Fiesta Texas Online


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First of all, Brandon, I know you closed a thread concerning this topic already, but I was told something that just has me believing in this rumor.

I was talking to an employee the other day, and while we were talking Superman became a topic of discussion, and then he went on to say that employees were told that SFFT will be receiving 'Batman' from a 'closed SF park.' This could mean BTR from SFNO or even Batman Escape from SFAW if true. I believe that both rides could easily fit into the park, even within 2 spaces. One is between SKC's lift and it's corkscrew finale over the pond (BTR was over a lake at SFNO) or in the space behind and to either side of THBS (where there is cleared land). I think the rumor would fit the BTR clone because SFFT is the only park that does not have an inverted coaster, and having it along with SeaWorld could be an advantage, as it would be one less reason for guests to go to SWSA over SFFT. Batman Escape was rumored to be sold to PARC management from SF when Darien Lake was sold, so the rumor is less fitting. SF did once have it stored there, still.

I'm not sure though, so what do ya'll think? I hope it's true and really look forward to seeing what SFFT's future holds, no matter what additions are made to the park.

-Jake

[Keith]

I remember a rumor a few years back about a B&M Flyer coming to the park, also named Batman. However, that has yet to happen.

I can see the viability on the Batman from SFNO. Also considering they began to take that ride down. I think the possiblity of the Batman from Darien Lake is less likely, for reasons you've stated. Who knows. At the moment, I'm not too sure if it's what the park needs. The park is great, as is. We don't want to saturate it with coasters. We need to start to focus on family-oriented fun, as Shapiro has said. And I don't believe that either Batman will fulfill those wished. However, from a business stand-point, it doesn't make much sense to have coasters being idle in New Orleans, when you can ship them a few hours away, and make them apart of a park again.

All I know is, time will tell. It's too early to tell. Also, I don't want to hold my breath, because rumors are just that... rumors. They may happen, they may not. To be honest, I'm hoping that neither of them come. Just because, if I think that it would be pointless to install an invert, especially to drive people away from Sea World. Sea World has something that no Six Flags could master, live, animal entertainment, backed by years of tradition and knowledge. No roller coaster is ever going to steal that away from Sea World.

However, a nice Screamin' Swing would be a nice addition to the park. Neither tall, nor fast. Just fun! I've seen kids enjoy Skyhawk at Cedar Point, and they loved it. The focus is shifted from "Thrills" to "fun". And no, they aren't the same thing.

Ok, getting off track....

We'll see, but don't hold your breath.

I'm beginning to resemble Stacy. With this long post and all. XD, jk.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by Keith

I'm beginning to resemble Stacy. With this long post and all. XD, jk.

Hey hey... you better be smiling when you say stuff like that. lol

Originally Posted by Keith

Just because, if I think that it would be pointless to install an invert, especially to drive people away from Sea World.

First, we all know the rules about "rumors", so we won't go there. What we hear or what we're told is just heresay until there are formal announcements and definitive proof. So as far as specific discussion and/or speculation about Batman or any other ride, let's put it to rest right here.

From a general standpoint of the hows and whys of corporate decisions, I'm sure we all know that SF isn't going to base any "yes, ride" or "no ride" decision on whether they think it will drive business away from SW. For the most part, the parks are two different animals (no pun intended). The people who go to SW aren't going for the coasters, and those who go to FT aren't looking for live mammal and animal shows. Apples and oranges.

I very seriously doubt that either park is sitting back thinking "Hmmm... now how can we drive the people away from that other park..." anyway. I am of the opinion that neither park has anything to fear from the other, and they do well side by side because they are different.

I believe any decision to bring something "new" to a park would be based on many factors- including finding homes for stored rides (waste of money sitting in a warehouse or boneyard) and/or to equalize the parks to some degree (i.e. many of the parks have in excess of 10-13 coasters, but there are a couple that have less than 7).

And although they've gone "family friendly" with respect to the overall park atmosphere, we have to remember that the "family" consists of more than just Mom and Pop Middle-aged and Tommy and Sue Pre-school. The family still includes John and Sara Teenager and Brad and Jill College Student. To cater to the "family" is to cater to then entire family, which can, and does, include all age groups... and therefore all different sizes and types of rides.

So although the comment was made by Shapiro that "there will be no more Goliath's", and I can certainly understand that from the standpoint of current company debt and trying to move the company into a better overall position, I don't think it means ZERO coasters, ever...

You have to spend money to make money. The key is to know how to do it, and how to do it wisely and responsibly. I believe each park will need to strike an equal balance of all aspects of a theme park in order to cater to every age category that is a potential guest - which means everybody. They've said they don't want to cater to just the teenagers, but they can't also go too far the other way by catering only to Mom and Pop and their toddlers/small children. There must be a balance somewhere.

We could debate it all day long, but when it comes right down to it, everyone has their own feelings, their own opinion, some for new rides, some against. No matter what, they'll never be able to please 100% of every person that walks through those gates. They can only do the best they can, and do what they think is best. And for those who can't always travel whenever they want to, any new ride that is something we don't already have in 'our' park will make us more content about staying home.

Just my li'l ole looooooong humble opinion, FWIW.

[Jake]

I really worded what I said about SW incorrectly, and I'm sorry about that. All that I mean is that having Great White at SW really shouldn't matter in the decision to relocate Batman at all, unlike what Brandon said in the closed thread.

I know rumors are rumors, but I just thought I'd post it because there has just been speculation about it ever since SF took down Batman from SFNO.

As for having another coaster, I can't complain! I am a roller coaster enthusiast, and when I go to parks, that's really all I ride. Ofcourse everyone likes different things and I would guess most of ya'll are more of park enthusiasts. But I would like to bet if you ask the GP if they would want more roller coasters at FT, an overhwhelming percent of them would say 'yes.'

-Jake

Oh yeah, I also thought it would be nice to have some sorta discussion here, as it's been a while since much has gone on!

[sfftfreak]

If a BTR did go to this Six Flags it would just be another coaster that the crew can not hit interval on. That's my opinion. Plus at Sea World, that coaster has been there since '97, longer than the one at SFOT.

I "would" (AKA would be extremely happy) like to see that flyer rumor come true. As long it is not a Superman clone, I would be good. However with the recent addition of THBS "themed" ride, (which turned out to be a fun ride but seriously, theming wise? Come on. It's non existant except for the very fun facts and the video in the station, hey, I like watching people completely wipe out on skateboards.) I do not think a Batman themed flyer would go well into the new recently renovated boardwalk section.

With all this thought out, my opinion "might" might go to a flat ride but a roller coaster that they can fit anywhere else in the park besides the Boardwalk area, no.

--David

On another note, someone correct me if I'm wrong but didnt Busch make a contract with B&M to build 3 dive machines?

[Jake]

^ My understanding of the mysterious contract is that B&M won't build any other dive machines in the US before '08 or w/e year...but hey, Sea World has plenty of space, right?

As for FT, I do agree that more flats are needed. A Screamin' Swing would be soo cool.

[Obling]

Hey Psychomind,
Obling here. Tisk, tisk. Spreading rumors again. If you don't know who I am think Gold Prowler and beard. I hope the park is treating you well. How often has the train been up? Are you still going to Entertainment? You'll see me back at the park really soon. As a teacher I think I need to sit you down and work on your grammer skills! It's OK folks. John and I are friends and co-workers at the park.
Obling.

[swimgeek95]

okay on my opinion we dont need a BTR those rides suck! i think we need the first roller coaster i rode back to FT..... THE JOKERS REVENGE!

[Jake]

In my opinion BTR's are one of the greatest coaster designs ever to hit theme parks. Why are there so many of them? It's because they are fantastic rides and can fit in a small area. Also, with 2 trains running, they have an amazing capacity.

As for the ride, it's keeps up speed very well and is VERY forceful. The loops are extremely compact, the 0g roll is shaped tighter than any other B&M, and the corks feature the extreme whip newer B&M's lack. I love 'em!

[Arizonaguy]

Originally Posted by Jakizle

In my opinion BTR's are one of the greatest coaster designs ever to hit theme parks. Why are there so many of them? It's because they are fantastic rides and can fit in a small area. Also, with 2 trains running, they have an amazing capacity.

As for the ride, it's keeps up speed very well and is VERY forceful. The loops are extremely compact, the 0g roll is shaped tighter than any other B&M, and the corks feature the extreme whip newer B&M's lack. I love 'em!

I totally agree. Bring it on Six Flags. I personally think it would complete the park. Good thrill ride while still maintaining the family image.

[swimgeek95]

it would sorta be like a trade since they took the joker.

[bn_hearn]

I agree and also remeber the Choas is gone, well they use the space to make the path to the ride

[Arizonaguy]

Originally Posted by bn_hearn

I agree and also remeber the Choas is gone, well they use the space to make the path to the ride

So many places.....so little funding. :-) But of course like I've said, it would still be a nice addition to the park regardless of the clone being at Sea World.

[Jake]

It is being reported that BTR peices HAVE been spotted at SFFT recently. It looks like this rumor has alot more strength to it now! I've always speculated it would happen and ever since that employee told me what he did I just had a feeling it was going to happen.

I will try to go to the park on Monday and snap pics.

[sfftfreak]

I really feel this is a bad decision. Six Flags has also taken the "Six Flags Photo TOO!" from Sea World and their Shamu TOO! There is the exact same ride at Sea World except from 11 years early. If they do end up doing this I really want to know where the have the space for this type of ride to go in. Yes, it is compact but will it fit anywhere other than the Boardwalk? No.

--David

Edit: There are plenty of GREAT ride ideas that can go to the park, this however, is not one of them.

[Greenville, Texan]

Originally Posted by sfftfreak

If they do end up doing this I really want to know where the have the space for this type of ride to go in.

Between Tony Hawk and Superman?

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by sfftfreak

Edit: There are plenty of GREAT ride ideas that can go to the park, this however, is not one of them.

And that's your opinion. Not everyone shares that assessment, thank goodness.

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by sfftfreak

If they do end up doing this I really want to know where the have the space for this type of ride to go in.

Originally Posted by Greenville, Texan

Between Tony Hawk and Superman?

Collectively there's plenty of space for most anything the park might want to do in the future.

[Jake]

I personally think that BTR's are amazing little rides, with their very forceful loops, old school 0g rolls, and snappy cork screws.

Also this version of BTR is a flipped clone, so that makes a little difference, lol. I think it could fit inbetween SCK's lift and corkscrews, with the only problem being the water. BTR was partially over water at SFNO, though. Like you said SFFT freak, it could also fit back by the boardwalk behind THBS to the left (and maybe right?).

[sfftfreak]

Originally Posted by Stacy

And that's your opinion. Not everyone shares that assessment, thank goodness.

Do you really think it's a good idea to put in an exact clone of a ride 15 min from a park that has it?

The gp actually knows a lot more than people give them credit for, IE I have heard some guests say "Oh Six Flags over Texas has that exact same ride!" What do you think they'll say to when it goes in 15 min away.

--David

[Jake]

^Why would FT care? It's not like the GP knows much of a difference and besides, Sea World has a different audience than Fiesta Texas.I have friends that love going to SFFT and riding the rides, yet they have never been to Sea World. The fact is the ride will get lines and will be a favorite attraction. I know I got burned for saying this earlier, but it is *one* less reason for me to go to SeaWorld SA over SFFT.

I love BTR's though, so my view might be biased.

[sfftfreak]

Fortuneately for you, that seems to be everyone's POV on this board.^

--David

[Stacy]

Originally Posted by sfftfreak

The gp actually knows a lot more than people give them credit for, IE I have heard some guests say "Oh Six Flags over Texas has that exact same ride!" What do you think they'll say to when it goes in 15 min away.

I've heard of guests arguing that two boomerangs (i.e. Boomerang, Flashback) were not the same ride, simply the color of the ride being what threw them off. Don't give every person in the GP that credit.

Originally Posted by sfftfreak

Do you really think it's a good idea to put in an exact clone of a ride 15 min from a park that has it?

Correction... the B:TR at SFNO is not an exact clone of GW. First, it's a mirror image. That by itself makes it a different ride because the direction in which the train drops, twists, and turns is mirrored. Second, IIRC, part of the 'straight' sections were shortened on GW making it a bit more 'compact'. That, too, gives it a different 'ride' (i.e. think of the difference between the ride we get on Polty [compact] as opposed to the ride we get on SKC [stretched/spread out]).

To say that B:TR at SFNO is an "exact clone", and therefore that it provides guests with the exact same ride experience, isn't accurate.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Jake... SFFT and SWSA cater to two different audiences. People who prefer the kind of shows SWSA offers (which are great, by the way) aren't going to be spending a lot of time at SFFT, and vice versa.

There was some negativity about a ride like THBS coming.... yet a long line forms there on a daily basis. It's a great little ride and I really enjoy it... as does my grandson who, because of THBS, now has another coaster in 'his' park that he can ride.

Originally Posted by sfftfreak

Fortuneately for you, that seems to be everyone's POV on this board.^

--David

Since it's a fan site for SFFT, why expect differently?

[Brandon]

^Why would FT care? It's not like the GP knows much of a difference

Really? Hmm. I would have said that the majority of the people would notice that they were similar. I can easily see them, "hey this is just like the great white". Sure, they may have different target audiences, but they are a lot a like in some parts. Many kids who are old enough to ride roller coasters are also old enough to enjoy the other attractions Sea World has to offer.

Out of personal opinion, if it is in-fact true, that it is a bad decision of SF's part. A ride that similar, and only 13 miles apart is pushing it. Can anyone name a town where two parks have mirror images or exact clones of the same ride? I sure can't think of any.

There's no press release yet, so who knows, anything could happen.

[James]

SF stores rides at other parks quite often. This could be three pages of nothing next season! I don't know if this has been thrown out there, but GW is a shorter mirror of BTR, not REALLY a clone in it's defense. Haha, but it is indeed a lame business move on SFFT's part. I think more people than Six Flags may think will notice that there's three inverted coasters in Texas and they're all the same ride.